When my son was asked to reasearch/write a current events paper, he chose Manning and then posted this as his Facebook Status. I then shared it with my friends and was so amazed by both the volume of response (108 comments) and his management of them that I wanted to share it with GratefulWeb readers. Here is the thread, (names omitted):
"With 0 input/opinion from me whatsoever other than he should read about it, this is what my 11 year old just wrote for his Facebook status:
"Ok so look at this headline I found. "Bradley Manning is sentenced to 35 years," now why in hell is he sentenced to 35 year. The Constitution says "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America," Now let's see here. He is trying to form a more perfect union yet he gets 35 years in prison. I think he is a hero. If you say otherwise then you are not involved in anything halfway controversial. So who does agree w/ me?"
"With 0 input/opinion from me whatsoever other than he should read about it, this is what my 11 year old just wrote for his Facebook status:
"Ok so look at this headline I found. "Bradley Manning is sentenced to 35 years," now why in hell is he sentenced to 35 year. The Constitution says "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America," Now let's see here. He is trying to form a more perfect union yet he gets 35 years in prison. I think he is a hero. If you say otherwise then you are not involved in anything halfway controversial. So who does agree w/ me?"
- Elizabeth Bissette Remember please this is a child's post. I realize and respect that we are not all of the same opinion - please respect that a child wrote this and keep your comments appropriate.
- Elizabeth Bissette I understand teh issue is complicated and will discuss it with him objectively from both sides then allow him to form his own opinion with all of the facts which yes, he does not yet have.
- Brian Womack You are right it is very complicated. I am not on Governemnts side, in their eyes I am one of those radicals and equal to a terrorist because I believe in the constitution. He may not of been convicted of aiding the enemy but he certainly did, and that is why I do not think him or Snowden is a hero.
- Elizabeth Bissette I do not see how he was aiding the enemy and lets please not have an attack on the tea party in this thread. Or an attack on anyone.
Molly Kerby Hey y'all...the boy is 11 and he is thinking critically about a situation. That's the point...- Brian Womack I say they aided because of putting the information out there for anyone to see, including our enemies. China is not a friend and neither is Russia, and you better believe that they downloaded everything that Snowden had when he went to those two countries.
- Brian Womack I applaud the boy, Please do not get me wrong and I am not against exposing the wrong doing of our government but there is better ways then what both of these men did.
- Brian Womack For an eleven year old, he has more brains and moxie then the sum of our political leaders it seems.
Sylvia Payne Being able to think critically, and not just waiting for your turn to talk, but truly listening...these are two skills that Charlie appears to be honing. Very cool.- Sylvia Payne Charlie, you may enjoy reading this book: http://www.amazon.com/Sophies-World-History-Philosophy-Classics/dp/0374530718/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377557303&sr=8-1&keywords=sophie%27s+world
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A page-turning novel that is also an exploration of the great philosophical conc...See More - Sylvia Payne And just one more suggestion. Zygmunt Bauman is pretty awesome: http://www.amazon.com/Consuming-Life-Zygmunt-Bauman/dp/0745640028/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=24G9ODHB3F2RW&coliid=I3HUH9UANXASTW
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With the advent of liquid modernity, the society of producers is transformed int...See More - Charles Falkner The main reason I made this post was I was looking for a news article for my current event paper. I saw the headline on CNN and I thought I should recognize it.
- Brian Womack I think you should copy and paste this whole thread for class; drop it on ur teachers desk and then say "Booyah!"
- Elizabeth Bissette On his own status page Charlie astutely added: "Oh and I forgot to mention he got a longer sentence then the ones who did the crime."
- Elizabeth Bissette Charlie is not only gifted in the ways we are seeing here but also drew his profile picture (computer graphics not pencil) and is planning on building his own computer for gaming. He has his own (gaming) YouTube channel here: https://youtube.com/user/xXRebornKillerXx
- Elizabeth Bissette Charles Falkner Please put our paper in a note and share it with us. I would love to post it on my blog at GratefulWeb also. You'll then be published at 11
- "Bradley Manning now eligible for release in less than 9 years, 4.4 in one calculation."" http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/21/us-usa-wikileaks-manning-reaction-idUSBRE97K0RB20130821
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LONDON (Reuters) - WikiLeaks on Wednesday said a 35-year jail term handed down t...See More 
Anon:- Talk of the founders to make pro-Snowden and pro-Chelsea Manning comments is odd: Washington had men shot for less.
- Elizabeth Bissette Washington was fighting for freedom from Tyranny. He would have made Snowdon a general.Anon:
- Ah so thats why the whiskey rebellion was brutally crushed!
- Elizabeth Bissette The first draft of the Declaration of Independence was written in the home of Charles and I's several greats grandfather. Our family arrived in Virginia in 1652 and our first land grand was Williamsburg because we gave land and silver to make it Williamsburg. We have, historically, fourght tyranny since Bacon's Rebellion never mind Washington (though I don't mean never mind Washington). I do not, for one moment, think that if Bacon, or Washington or Jefferson or our sev greats grandfather who was his best friend were here that they would advocate the Patriot Act. Or what the NSA is doing or a great number of things. These things are far more infringing on civil liberties than the England we fought to free ourselves from was doing. It is all vastly more complicated than that, yes; but I would personally love to see what Jefferson would say about the Patriot Act. I really, really would.
- Elizabeth Bissette My Great-Great-Great Grandfather: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Page_%28Virginia_politician%29
en.wikipedia.org
John Page (April 28, 1743 – October 11, 1808) was a figure in early United State...See More - Jack DeVille Even though Washington and Jefferson weren't as principled as I used to think they were, they had great words of wisdom, intent, and accomplished great things. If they were around today they would no doubt be shooting, and if they could somehow time travel to the modern era and catch a glimpse of the modern world and how its run by its central banks, wars, and tyrannical bureacrats, I believe they would have become 100% more principled than they were.Anon:
- Liz, If some continental army private or spy published secret info in 'ye olde almanac of whatevs' they would have been shot irregardless of their motives. The modern USA is far more liberal than the state the founders created with its female suffrage, racial equality. Compared to modern Europe and Canada the USA is far more liberal on civil liberties as well. John Adams criminalized dissent with the alien and sedition acts which were far more extreme than any modern American law. Arguing that the founders would have thought this or that is a silly variant of the argument from authority fallacy. They held widely diverse views, hated each other and got a lot of things wrong recall Jefferson's naive views on the French revolution and the future shock would too overwhelming for them anyway.
- Elizabeth Bissette "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the Government fears the people, there is liberty." - Jefferson Charles Falkner The majority are afraid now of the government insofar at least as the NSA, FDA and police behavior/Supreme Court changes have gone. If it's not the majority, they haven't read the Patriot Act. The Government fears whistleblowers. If you want to know what Jefferson would say he said it. That does not mean he would condone Manning or Snowdon, I don't know if he would or wouldn't, but that's what he said and that's what's up.
- Jack DeVille There's nothing wrong with being upset that people are being thrown into jail for 35 years for speaking out against government wrong-doings, even though a presence of government is a wrong-doing in and of itself. I think that's the central point Elizabeth was trying to put across. Despite discussion on what we personally think of the founders would be doing [which I highly doubt were stated as fact and more like an opinion on what could be], I think it's fair we can all agree that it is wrong to imprison a man for telling someone 'hey uhh this soldier here has shot 11 civilians in this illegal war for fun out of a helicopter'.
- Elizabeth Bissette And Washington said, "The Constitution is the guide which I will never abandon." He would not be down with a great, great many things. Charles FalknerAnon:
- The USA is more liberal now than its ever been, so if this is 'tyranny' what does that make the past?
- Elizabeth Bissette Manning is being made an example of to deter others, not punished entirely according to his actions. If he, Snowden, not the Government are doing wrong, why be so afraid of whistle blowing? Even the court agreed nothing he leaked aided the enemy. It aided the people by making us aware. Are we then the enemy?
- Anon: Manning was not found guilty of the charge of aiding the enemy, his own advocates in wikifreaks say he'll be out in less than 9 years. Citing Manning and Snowden makes little sense, no country on earth recognizes leaking classified information as a form of 'whistle blowing' or anything other than criminal. Where are these utopias where soldiers and intel agency contractors can leak secrets freely? None exist.
- Jack DeVille The past problems you stated that make the modern world more liberal were caused by the same institutions that lessened them more and more as time went by. So what point are you trying to make? No one is advocating for a time machine, we're advocating for government transparency. Just because something is 'illegal' and written on a piece of paper as a crime, doesn't mean that it's actually wrong to take such action. All we're saying, James, is that it's wrong to shoot innocent civilians for fun out of a helicopter, and we're proud of Manning for telling people the truth instead of allowing it to be hidden from everyone. If you think it's okay to do so, then continue voting for freaks like Bush and Obama.
- Elizabeth Bissette Yes but they are trying to crack down on whistleblowers and catching the Snowdon/Manning issues up in the argument. You are correct, no place allows free leaking of secrets but at the same time why are these things secrets? What is leaked does not aid the enemy. What has been leaked has raised the awareness of the people re what our gov't is doing to us -not enemies. Makes, as I said, it seem like the gov't feels we are the enemy.
- Elizabeth Bissette I, for one, strongly advocate for a time machine, lol. I would love to hang out with Granddaddy and Uncle Jefferson.Anon:
- Jack, I focused on the past because Elizabeth's posts focused on the past otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned it. I never said that Manning or Snowden were ethically wrong or right; that is irrelevant from a legal POV. The point is that no country recognizes leaking classifed information as a form of protest or whistle blowing. I never said that it was right to shoot civilians, strawman much?Anon:
- Liz, as I pointed before Manning was found not guilty of aiding the enemy which was not based in some new post-911 law its based in the early 20th century espionage act.
- Jack DeVille well we're not talking about law. we're talking about principles. wrong and right, not obedient or disobedient.
- The point is that citing Snowden and Manning as proof of 'tyranny' is absurd since there is no country in existence that allows for people to leak highly classified information. A Canadian or French Snowden or Manning wouldn't have fared differently. https://twitter.com/WhiteyDudebro/status/370189706106896384
twitter.com
Instantly connect to what's most important to you. Follow your friends, experts, favorite celebrities, and breaking news. - Jack DeVille So? Despite what the rest of the world thinks, the actions taken against those two men are still tyrannical. You're logic is that there is no tyranny because all other state governments would do the same. That implies that an action on behalf of a government, for it to be wrong to be taken against a body of people, all other governments must agree that it is wrong, and THEN it's tyrannical? What kind of logic is that?
- Elizabeth Bissette It's too late/I'm too tired to address all these points right now but I may do so in an article since Charlie has become so interested. I've avoided writing about politics but if he wants to know then I feel like I should.
- Anon: Manning proved that civilians die in wars if thats tyranny what does that make FDR? The Snowden leaks have shown that the NSA is more restrained the USA in any decade of the 20th century: its more restrained than the European Union's data retention directive. Any European state has more surveillance powers than the USA.
- Elizabeth Bissette I'm just really proud that I have an 11 year old capable of sparking this much discussion. Charles Falkner it's 3am and grown-ups haven't stopped discussing your post 28 likes, 10 hours of solid discussion and 74 comments. Put that in your paper. Seriously.
- Jack DeVille So the discussion is now tyranny, and you're saying that something's not tyranny if something in the past was worse or if someone else has it worse. I'm sorry, that's just not acceptable. Wrong is wrong, no matter where or when.Anon:
- Jack, if laws against releasing classified information there isn't a single state that isn't a tyranny. Making it illegal to leak classified information is a necessity not a violation of human rights.
- Elizabeth Bissette All I have the brain strength at this hour to say is that one must in this case consider what classified info was leaked. Information that aids our enemies has not been leaked. Information of things that really make no common, human sense to classify or do has been leaked. Who is wrong? The leaker or those classifying information that is harmful to US citizens?Anon:
- Again I only brought up the past because Liz mentioned it. You're distorting my argument, having certain information classified is not 'wrong' or do you think there is a universal right to know nuclear launch codes and the identities of HUMINT assets?
- Elizabeth Bissette Some information should be classified - I'm sure much information should be classified. Our government spying on us to the extent that they are without cause does not fit the common perception of 'classified' nor should it be acceptable that it is.
- Jack DeVille you're just bringing irrelevant information time and time again.I don't think anyone here cares about law as much as just discussing how wrong the whole situation is. it's like we're talking about the wrong-doings of the government and two people who pointed it out and all you care about are written laws that have no compliance with common sense or morality. I refuse to keep talking about this because obviously you're okay with killing if the government does it. even though you say you aren't okay with it you keep defending it as if it's totally alright.
- Anon: We don't know the full extent of Snowden's leaks, the only assurance we have that Chinese and Russian intelligence didn't get anything harmful from him is that he said they didn't, seems legit! Manning didn't harm Americans but then he revealed classified information about American wars overseas.
- Anon: Saying that I'm "okay with killing" is libelous and false and suggests deficient reading comprehension as I barely mentioned war, my comments were centered around domestic issues.
- Elizabeth Bissette American journalists being placed in the same category as terrorists and being gunned down by laughing soldiers is not something that merits classification on the level of nuclear launch codes. If Manning had say, let enemy troops know where a secret base was - ok, yes, that's high treason. I think part of the issue here (and again it's mighty late for this) is why is NSA reading all international mail, or soldiers killing journalists, why are those things classified anyway? Unless, again, we are all going to just agree now that journalists and anyone emailing someone outside of the US is the enemy. Enemy of what for god's sake? Enemy of the government's ability to continue doing these things? And those 2 examples are the tip of a very large iceburg. We SHOULD and I would LOVE to be able to trust the government to only classify information that protects the American people; but they are classifying, apparently, information that endangers us or, at the very least (and why is this a least), our civil liberties per our Constitution.
- Elizabeth Bissette I mean seriously, you really think he's like the Big Bad Wolf spy out to take out America and all our (where did they go) liberties? I just have a hard time swallowing that one. Wouldn't he then have rather sold it to China or Russia or whoever and not made a public spectacle of liberty?Anon:
- No I'm skeptical of him thats all and I think its too soon to that his actions haven't hurt us.
- Elizabeth Bissette Well, that's healthy skepticism but what we do know is that our government's actions have hurt us. That is one of many disturbing facts in place here.Anon:
- War for most of the 20th century has been strictly censored by the American military they made sure the public during WWII never learned of rogue soldiers killing Italian or German civilians for un. I didn't say it was the same as launch code I brought that up to illustrate the absurdity of placing classifying info in the category of 'wrong.' I didn't say that Manning was a traitor merely that there is no country that would consider his actions to be something other than illegal.
- Elizabeth Bissette What we don't know is what on earth the gov't's actual motive with classifying all this shocking that it's classified or happening stuff is and that is far more fearsome than the actions, known or unknown or both, of one or two men. Especially combined with the Supreme Court decisions, police behavior, cyanide chicken from the FDA and other things we do know about. For what fng reason on earth any of it? Because I see none.
- Jack DeVille I honestly could care less about the motives or legalities. Fact remains is something wrong happened, someone pointed it out, and got arrested for it. This is a very messed up situation, and I don't see how anyone could be okay with it.
- Elizabeth Bissette If you're not aiding the government and you're a solidier then that's that. But the moral issue behind treason that justifies (presumably) punishment is are you, wiht your treason, aiding the enemy or are you exposing a corrupt government and thereby aiding the people. A life should not be caught in the crossfire of semantics like that.
- Elizabeth Bissette I'm sorry I didn't get Thomas Paine's wish, speaking of founding fathers, "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day so that my child may have peace."
Norm Leadbetter "War" in the U.S. has to be declared by Congress. That there is a wartime enemy that people can aid is yet another case of the US Government taking away the power that was supposed to belong to the people. I do not think that this country is more liberal or conservative than it was in 1800, it is a very mixed bag. We were a nation of smugglers, slaveholders, moonshiners, radicals and yes many loyalists. The "Founding Fathers" were quite radical in their day, and broke as a joke after the revolution. They managed to save themselves, along with the rest from British policies and the Articles of Confederation. Great post from an eleven year old kid!- Norm Leadbetter The secrets that Snowden and Manning passed to wikileaks concealed war crimes, political embarrassments and yes real crimes committed by the state, in my opinion.
- Elizabeth Bissette I think Charlie's post has gotten more comments than any of mine ever. I can't wait to read his paper.
Jake Stilwell · 7 mutual friends
Manning turned over 750,000 documents, he didn't even know what was in them all, he is a traitor and should be treated as such.- Elizabeth Bissette I think it's great that so many different opinions are represented here. I'm going to let Charlie research more about where they're coming from and form his own response before saying anything else. Thank you all! I wish I'd been able to write a paper in middle school by posting the topic on my parent's facebook page, lol. No fair!
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